[older messages]
19 Mar 18, 01:13
smiley: And those CNN reportres sure are getting a bang out "investigating" her by attending her shows.
19 Mar 18, 01:13
waveguru: Why pay $130K to keep quiet if nothing happened?
19 Mar 18, 01:15
smiley: Why does it have to mean what you say it means? First rule of critical thinking is that just because you want something to be true doesn't mean that it is.
19 Mar 18, 01:16
smiley: There have many many instances of people being paid thousnads of dollars to settle "nuisance" lawsuits. Thats just one example.
19 Mar 18, 01:16
waveguru: Just because you don’t want something to be true doesn’t mean it isn’t.
19 Mar 18, 01:17
smiley: You and I are not supposed to know. Thats the whole point of a non-disclosuer agreement
19 Mar 18, 01:17
smiley: And vice versa. I trust that means you see my point. Thank you.
19 Mar 18, 01:18
smiley: All anyone can do is speculate. And as long as people are willing to speculate, Stormy keeps bringing in the cash
19 Mar 18, 01:26
smiley: Clinton just cannot stop interjecting herself into the political arena. This is her trying to justify her "white women vote the way their husbands tell them to" comment: "I also mentioned something in passing that's gotten a lot of negative attention: that there is anecdotal evidence and some research to suggest that women are unfortunately more swayed by men than the other way around. As much as I hate the possibility, and hate saying it, it’s not that crazy when you think about our ongoing struggle to reach gender balance – even within the same household. I did not realize how hard it would hit many who heard it."
19 Mar 18, 01:46
smiley: But wave, lets suppose for a moment that you are correct, and ther was an affair. What do you think should happen? Is it grounds for impeachment? Doesn't seem so, since it happened ten years before he was elected. Appoint a second (third?) special counsel in the hopes of finding an impeachable offense? Its been a year and Mueller hasnt delivered yet, even at the expense of almost $10 mill. Say, "its just sex" "it should just be between him and his wife" like the Dems did when Bill Clinton was caught with Lewinski?
19 Mar 18, 01:52
smiley: Or is the whole thing just a means of attempting to drive a wedge between Trump and his supporters? Make him, and by extension his party more unappealing to voters in the upcoming midterms? I strongly suspect that this last is the real motive behind, not necessarily (maybe?) you but liberals generally, giving this story so much airtime. If not, then why is this story so important?
19 Mar 18, 02:04
smiley: Night all, and thanks to Fish and Wave for chiming in late night
19 Mar 18, 07:46
db: Let's see what the results of Mueller's investigation show. Although it sounds like that won't change any minds. So I guess it's up to the voters in November and in 2020. Although that will all be rigged. I think Trump has known the value of propaganda and the Big Lie for decades. You know, of course, that the expression "Big Lie" was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
19 Mar 18, 07:56
db: In the case of Trump, it is merely hyperbole. A number of Republican politicians have apologized for Trump by insisting that he uses hyperbole in his public statements, what many of us hear as a lie. I think that might also be called "newspeak." Trump's limited and repeated vocabulary serves the purposes of newspeak. By choosing which words the populace can use, The Party (i.e., Trump) can choose to shift thought in a more positive or negative direction to suit their needs. Orwell was right, only he was about 35 years early. He should have titled his book "2020."
19 Mar 18, 08:06
db: Of course Trump isn't the first or only politician to employ hyperbole and the Big Lie, but he has certainly raised it to an art form, where it dominates his rhetoric. I think he's one of the few politicians to have the reputation for routinely lying. In fact, up until now the (fake) media never came right out and called a president a liar. I recall how reluctant they were to use the word early in the Age of Trump, and how shocking it was to hear or read the words "lie" and "liar" applied to a presidential candidate. We've gotten so numb to Trump and his lies that most of us now distrust everything he says, which can be disastrous when the next crisis arises. We were taken to war by Bush largely because we believed his lies. Will it be as easy for Trump to take us to war, even with the truth, if we've been conditioned to think that he lies reflexively?
19 Mar 18, 08:08
db: Well, I don't expect any discussion of this. Everybody go out and enjoy the sunshine. :)
19 Mar 18, 08:14
waveguru: It’s obvious to me that most of the don’s supporters are going to believe whatever he says and are already setting themselves up to disbelieve the results of any and all investigations. FAKE NEWS! WITCH HUNT! Just being a Democrat is enough to discredit you but paying $130K to keep an accuser silent is just business as usual. Nothing to see here, move along.
19 Mar 18, 08:27
Monroe2: Sign of the times, [link]
19 Mar 18, 08:30
db: @Monroe2 LOL, I was just reading that one 30 seconds ago in my morning tour through my favorite comics. :biggrin:
19 Mar 18, 09:02
db: Finally, what appears to be a calm appraisal of McCabe's firing from Lawfare [link] Their assessment: But on McCabe’s innocence or culpability for some infraction that might justify his dismissal, we will reserve judgment—and we caution others to as well. It is simply not clear at this stage whether or not the record will support his dismissal.
19 Mar 18, 09:07
db: My problem with the firing was not the merits (which I'm assuming the IG investigation will show are sustained) but the vindictiveness, the politicization, the timing, and the unseemly gloating by the president as the full extent of his loathing for the justice system and the FBI, Comey, Mueller, and McCabe are put on full public display.
19 Mar 18, 09:57
db: He is a little boy who has not yet learned to temper his primitive instincts.
19 Mar 18, 10:05
Fishawk: What bother me is the obfuscation of fact surrounding his firing. If you look at the way the Trump camp has described his firing, it would be because of somehow mishandling the Russia investigation, or somehow defending Hillary. On the contrary, he was defending the ongoing investigation into the handling of emails by the Clinton campaign. I think Republican Trey Gowdy said it best when he addressed Trumps lawyer Dowd, " If you have an innocent client, stop making him look guilty".
19 Mar 18, 11:06
db: If Trump could just learn to shut up and not inject himself into personnel matters that he has no business involving himself in, things like the IG report would have been noted without becoming a cause célèbre dominating the news and reflecting badly on Trump rather than McCabe. Trump's inability to refrain from making every single thing about HIM has given this legs that it otherwise wouldn't have.
19 Mar 18, 11:09
larry: Exactly. In his whole term in office so far, he's been his own worst enemy. As one Republican said this weekend, stop acting like you're guilty. Quit trying to impede the justice system, it's really bad optics.
19 Mar 18, 11:10
larry: So maybe he isn't guilty, but why does he keep acting like it?
19 Mar 18, 11:10
db: But of course Trump thrives on this. He's admitted that he is entertained by setting people against each other and then settling back with a couple of diet Cokes and two scoops of ice cream to watch the excitement play out on his giant TV screen.
19 Mar 18, 11:17
db: He needs a hobby.
19 Mar 18, 11:41
Angie: Yep db, we would probably agree that we would agree that we could have possibly had a little girl in office that would not be able to control her primitive instincts. It does work both ways. I am curious about this analytics story with Facebook. Seems like Facebook doesn't give a sheust. [link]
19 Mar 18, 11:44
db: Since Trump seems to gain most of his world view from watching TV, perhaps someone could convince him to watch the NetFlix thriller "Occupied," a near-future series about a resurgent Russia subverting a rich and stable western democracy (Norway) while a divided European Union and an isolationist United States turn a blind eye. The wars of the future, “Occupied” shows us, will be hybrid conflicts relying on the subversion of institutions as much as brute force. It might have seemed fantastical when the writers thought it up in 2015, but they have certainly captured the zeitgeist. [link]
19 Mar 18, 11:45
db: @Angie Actually, I don't agree on that. Hillary had a lot of faults, but I don't think that was one of them.
19 Mar 18, 11:47
db: If anything, she was too tightly controlled, too analytic.
19 Mar 18, 11:49
db: Wasn't that supposed to be Trump's appeal, that he was unscripted, impulsive, outrageous? Everything that up-tight Hillary wasn't?
19 Mar 18, 11:52
db: I think Hillary would have been smart enough to axe McCabe behind the scenes and not gloat about it.
19 Mar 18, 22:25
db: I suppose it was inevitable that Trump try non-disclosure agreements for government employees in the White House. Problem is, I don't think he can do that. Didn't he talk about transparency once?
19 Mar 18, 22:39
db: For the night crew who will be dropping by in three or four hours, just want to say hello. The place is all yours til 8 a.m. or so. Have fun and keep it clean. :biggrin:
20 Mar 18, 08:36
db: Um, quiet night. Well, happy spring! I've had my chai latte, read the comics, worked the sudoku, now it's time to go see what Donnie's been up to.
20 Mar 18, 08:41
db: Looks like the don is starting to panic. A notable cheapskate who doesn't like to pay for A-list lawyers, he's taking on one of the highest priced lawyers in the country, Theodore B. Olson (I hope Teddy is insisting on being paid up front).
20 Mar 18, 08:43
db: However, it's not a done deal, unclear whether Olson would accept. He previously declined an offer to join the team. :)
20 Mar 18, 09:14
Fishawk: Olsen is one of the top lawyers, most might remember him for the Bush vs Gore election litigation. Smart enough not to associate himself with Trumps other new lawyer, TV personality, and grand conspiracy theorist, Joe diGenova.
20 Mar 18, 09:44
db: A top comment from the NYT opinion page: When you're in the kind of legal jeopardy Mr. Trump is, the dumbest thing you can do is pick lawyers who are telling you what you want to hear- much less, those doing so on cable news. You need a top-notch lawyer (with expertise in the field, and a major firm backing him or her up) who will sober you up with a brutal estimation of the worst possible outcome; then outline and competently execute a defense strategy with the best chance of avoiding that scenario. Then you need to cooperate fully in the plan, keep your mouth shut about the case, take advice, and pay the bills.
20 Mar 18, 09:47
db: But no top-notch lawyer wants to take on this train wreck of a president who thinks he knows more than anyone else and refuses to take advice.
20 Mar 18, 10:04
Angie: I'm a bit off topic here, but for some reason or another I had an urge to google john Brennan. I am not familiar with the source and was surprised I had never heard of the allegations. For what it is worth. [link]
20 Mar 18, 10:16
db: No topic is off topic. Interesting article. Do you suppose there is any evidence to support a Congressional investigation?
20 Mar 18, 10:19
db: For what it's worth, it sounds a bit outlandish to me, but who knows. A president and a porn star would once have sounded outlandish. ;)
20 Mar 18, 10:24
db: Perhaps there's a reason why you haven't heard the allegations before.
20 Mar 18, 10:30
Fishawk: John Brennan a "supporter of the American communist party at the height of the cold war". Uh, you have to wonder how he got security clearance after that. Deep STATE conspiracy, hurumph, hurumph, out to get Trump. One has to also wonder with this Grand Conspiracy, in a town like Washington, where and who the "leakers" are? Is every single FBI and CIA agent of authority involved? Otherwise, wouldn't at least one,from either agency, come forward and be a whistleblower? Tinfoil hats for all!
20 Mar 18, 10:59
db: And a very large grain of salt, perhaps. (I wonder where that saying comes from. Why would a grain of salt improve your discernment?)
20 Mar 18, 11:04
curmudgeon: your wish... [link]
20 Mar 18, 11:08
db: :biggrin:
20 Mar 18, 11:09
db: Update on Theodore Olson: . . . after reviewing the offer and weighing potential conflicts with his clients at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, where he is a partner, Olson is not planning to join Trump’s team, a top executive at the firm said Tuesday. “I can confirm that [the firm] and Theodore B. Olson will not be representing Trump,” Theodore J. Boutrous, the global co-chair of the Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher litigation group, tweeted on Monday following The Washington Post’s initial report.
20 Mar 18, 11:12
db: So I guess diGenova will have to do as the new top talent, joining Ty Cobb and friends.
20 Mar 18, 11:16
Angie: brennan is an interesting character. [link]
20 Mar 18, 11:20
Angie: Fish, seems there is no Grey area. Someday soon we will discover if it is the left or the right that is wearing the proverbial tin foil hat, I wonder how that day will be. Sometimes I believe that sooner would be better than later.
20 Mar 18, 11:37
Angie: Keep in mind though, a president, a cigar and a young intern. That was two decades ago, how outlandish is that? An unfortunate precedent was set.
20 Mar 18, 11:38
db: Yes, that was pretty outlandish, too. Perhaps the precedent set was impeachment? Ya think?
20 Mar 18, 11:43
Angie: Sure, understandable the impeachment since he was in office, but the enabling of his behavior by the wife probably set women's rights back 30 years.
20 Mar 18, 11:46
db: Oh, I doubt that.
20 Mar 18, 11:49
db: I think Trump has met his match with Stormy. Two outrageous publicity hungry celebrities . . . they deserve each other. ;)
20 Mar 18, 11:50
db: But Stormy has better lawyers.
20 Mar 18, 12:00
Fishawk: @ Angie, I don't think the tin foil hat is the exclusive apparel of either the left or right, but rather a particular mindset (unstable) of both sides. But as they say, you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist until it's proven true. Maybe the world is out to get Trumpster, he has certainly stepped on enough ties to create it.
20 Mar 18, 12:01
Fishawk: Auto correct toes not ties
20 Mar 18, 12:02
db: I don't know, ties might fit also. :)
20 Mar 18, 12:03
Angie: Good point fish, the entire shenigan is getting old. Let us come to a conclusion and move on, one way or the other
20 Mar 18, 12:04
Angie: Interesting times
20 Mar 18, 12:11
Fishawk: Let's remember that the Mueller investigation is into all Russian meddling into our elections. Trump, because of his view of the world, or some other reason, has made it about himself, his campaign, and his administration.I want a full comprehensive investigation, let the chips fall where they may. But you have to admit,Trumps team is acting guilty. I know db likes Shakespeare so I'll leave it with "I think thou doest protest too much"
20 Mar 18, 12:20
Angie: More than likely it is much more complex than us average common folk can comprehend. Would be nice to know, let us be free
20 Mar 18, 12:21
Angie: May you please elaborate on comprehensive investigation?
20 Mar 18, 12:36
db: The Mueller investigation seems pretty comprehensive, don't you think? He seems to be going where the evidence leads. If anything, he has a super abundance of evidence it would seem. Let's see how comprehensive his final report is.
20 Mar 18, 12:39
db: I'm afraid I'm not one of those who see some vast, corrupt conspiracy in all investigative and intelligence branches of the U.S. government. I trust their professionalism and their non-partisanship, with a grain of salt.
20 Mar 18, 12:40
db: Unfortunately, comprehensive investigations can take time.
20 Mar 18, 13:03
Angie: I suppose we need to define comprehensive. I was asking fish though
20 Mar 18, 13:26
Fishawk: I see a comprehensive investigation as one that follows the evidence, whether it is exculpatory or damning. So far it seems, the Mueller team is doing just that. If there is an " invisable" hand involved, evidence will reveal itself of it. You just can't keep a conspiracy that big a secret.
20 Mar 18, 14:21
Angie: Nice quote regarding keeping a conspiracy a secret. I agree
20 Mar 18, 14:50
db: And I do apologize for intruding in a private conversation. I know that can be annoying. :)
20 Mar 18, 14:51
db: Let me know when a subject is open for general comment.
20 Mar 18, 15:04
Angie: I will honor your desire, I do not think most here pay any more attention to me as they do you.
20 Mar 18, 15:05
db: Remember when Trump said publicly during the 2016 presidential campaign that women accusing him of unwanted sexual contact were making up their claims? Well, a New York judge has ruled that a defamation law suit filed by one of those women against Trump can go ahead. The sound you hear is chickens coming home to roost.
20 Mar 18, 15:07
db: Actually, Angie, I don't think most people here pay much attention to anyone else. Most are just whinging.
20 Mar 18, 15:17
db: Although every now and then a good discussion gets going.
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