[older messages]
18 Jan 19, 12:02
db: And I doubt she does anything without careful thought and planning.
18 Jan 19, 12:02
Fishawk: Trump is oblivious to the pain and suffering caused by this shutdown, concerned only with the political consequences. The public outrage should be directed at McConnell and Senate republicans to pass legislation with a vote that would overide any veto.
18 Jan 19, 12:02
waveguru: It doesn't really matter. It was brilliant tho...
18 Jan 19, 12:03
db: I think McConnell will eventually be forced to bring the bills that Pelosi has sent to him to the floor of the Senate.
18 Jan 19, 12:04
waveguru: Did you all see where a democrat tried to bring the bill to the floor? McConnell objected...
18 Jan 19, 12:06
db: Apparently it is custom, not any rule, that says that only the Senate majority leader can introduce legislation to the floor, as seen by that Democrat yesterday. And McConnell was highlighted as the one holding up and end to this debacle. Losing all around.
18 Jan 19, 12:06
db: "holding up AN end"
18 Jan 19, 12:06
Fishawk: The onus of the shutdown is shifting to McConnell and the Senate Republicans, as it should, as long as McConnell refuses to allow legislation to proceed.
18 Jan 19, 12:07
db: Bad optics
18 Jan 19, 12:09
db: But McConnell needs Trump's approval before he's allowed to proceed. McConnell is announcing to the world that he has no power beyond what Trump allows him.
18 Jan 19, 12:09
Fishawk: Trumps 30% is looking smaller and smaller as opposition grows. 2020 will see him used as an albatross more successfully than 2018
18 Jan 19, 12:10
waveguru: Well, the fact is, he has the power. He just doesn't have the balls.
18 Jan 19, 12:10
db: :)
18 Jan 19, 12:10
waveguru: Or ovaries...
18 Jan 19, 12:11
db: Those have been gifted to Pelosi
18 Jan 19, 12:11
db: She sorta reminds me of Lyndon Johnson, only more couth.
18 Jan 19, 12:11
waveguru: I too am impressed with the way Pelosi has stepped up to the plate
18 Jan 19, 12:13
Fishawk: McConnells unfortunate truth is that Trump is more popular in Kentucky than he is, and he's up for re-election.
18 Jan 19, 12:13
waveguru: I just stole this from a friend: Trump is a aficionado of one-downmanship.
18 Jan 19, 12:16
db: I think if McConnell defied Trump and brought this shutdown to an end, and then negotiated border security (not just a wall) and immigration reform with Pelosi, he would be rewarded by his voters.
18 Jan 19, 12:20
Fishawk: After last night's buzzfeed report that Trump directed PERJURY, multiple democrats are calling for Mueller to release all relevant information so that impeachment proceedings can begin.
18 Jan 19, 12:21
Fishawk: "The shutdown is just a distraction" Eric Holder
18 Jan 19, 12:25
db: I oppose impeachment as a general rule, but it's getting to the point where Trump's misconduct (malfeasance) is too serious to ignore and impeachment is unavoidable. [edited]
18 Jan 19, 12:26
db: @waveguru, yeah, Trump always manages to sink to the occasion.
18 Jan 19, 12:40
Fishawk: Trump aka "unindicted individual 1" has so many criminal investigations surrounding him, with new unrefuted evidence as well as the Giuliani walkbacks as past evidence becomes corroborated, is now impossible to overlook. It is time to stop "whistling past the graveyard" and hold people accountable.
18 Jan 19, 13:07
Fishawk: Trump is trying to pivot to the N. Korea issue. This should be of great concern as he has the ability to unilaterally start a war. This is a man devoid of conscience. The failure of the Congress to a dress the War Powers Act puts the world in peril. Trump is a dangerous malevolent psychopath, capable of anything, including starting a nuclear war.
18 Jan 19, 14:20
db: No one has a real understanding of “collusion,” because it is a non-legal, vague term. A conspiracy can be complicated, hard to prove. “Suborning perjury,” a phrase known to anyone who’s watched “Law & Order,” is specific and simple.
18 Jan 19, 14:20
db: So is tax evasion.
18 Jan 19, 15:02
db: Donnie, they're comin' to getcha!
18 Jan 19, 15:11
Fishawk: Espionage is also very definable.
18 Jan 19, 15:12
Fishawk: But there will always be the " but Hillary, well Obama" defense.
18 Jan 19, 16:08
db: To which the answer is, "Well then, indict Hillary. Indict Obama."
18 Jan 19, 16:10
db: The gun is smoking. The fat lady is warming up.
18 Jan 19, 16:23
Fishawk: This will be a long opera, Trump will not go gently into the darkness of his own creation. I would not put anything off the table for this deranged soul. He is like the crazed s**thouse rat. 🐀 As we saw with the child refugee family seperations, that we are only now learning the size, scale and ineptness of, he has no empathy for the suffering he causes others. His cult cheers more polution, deregulating the banks etc,etc. Their apathy and ignorance also deserve scorn.
18 Jan 19, 18:15
Fishawk: In what is arguably a sign of desperation to "change the news cycle from talk of his felonious instruction for Cohen to lie to Congress, Trumpster has called for a news conference tommorow. I'm guessing that his only play out of the corner he's painted himself into is to declare a national emergency. It won't hold up in court, but then bashing the justice system will be the hallmark of the end of his prezidency. At least we'll get government back open. The damage is done and I predict this miscalculation will be seen historically as the end of Trumps power over Washington.
18 Jan 19, 18:18
Fishawk: Tommorows headline: Trump the Loser, folds like a cheap suit.
18 Jan 19, 21:42
db: I'm not sure what to expect from Trump's function tomorrow. It could be anything.
18 Jan 19, 22:17
larry: From what I've read, the House Democrats have made an offer of an additional billion dollars for border security, in addition to the 1.4 billion offered previously. Maybe Trump has decided to accept the offer; although that seems unlikely to me.
18 Jan 19, 22:21
larry: Sorry for all the deletes; I'm typing on my Kindle and not all that good on the Kindle keyboard. :)
18 Jan 19, 23:03
db: Geez, a billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money.
19 Jan 19, 01:18
Fishawk: Scale isn't a concept everyone has a grasp on
19 Jan 19, 09:11
larry: The key point is that the Democrats are negotiating in good faith, unlike Trump. They've passed a number of measures to re-open the government and improve border security but McConnel in the Senate won't consider them.
19 Jan 19, 09:13
larry: And they've now proposed an additional 1 billion for border security. Real border security improvements, not an expensive and ineffective "Wall".
19 Jan 19, 09:19
larry: It's funny that Trump has shifted over the months to talking less about a Wall, and more about "border security", which is what Democrats have been for all along, for years.
19 Jan 19, 09:32
db: If Donnie's "major" announcement today is that he's accepting the additional 1 billion, opening the govt and proclaiming victory, we can all thank grandma Nancy. Like any wise mother or grandmother, she found something that Donnie really, really, REALLY wanted and took it away until he cooled off. He so wanted the SOU, with all it's ceremony, with all the really "important" people there (cabinet, House, Senate, SCOTUS), with free TV time for 45 minutes and EVERYBODY watching. I'll bet he'd already lined up a half-dozen women who had lost a husband or child to one of those violent drug-dealing illegal animals from Mexico. (Call me cynical.)
19 Jan 19, 09:57
waveguru: Or, maybe he's going to announce his resignation?
19 Jan 19, 09:57
waveguru: ;)
19 Jan 19, 10:01
waveguru: (Call me optimistic)
19 Jan 19, 10:38
db: We can only hope. But that leaves us with Pence.
19 Jan 19, 10:40
waveguru: Pence is not good, but he would be way better than the don.
19 Jan 19, 10:46
db: Trump is bringing the troops home from Syria. He goes out to Dover AFB later today to welcome back two of them and two contractors. I'm sure their families appreciate the honor. [link] :cry:
19 Jan 19, 10:48
db: The president’s Air Force One flight to Dover came two days after he canceled an official government plane for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to lead a congressional delegation to Afghanistan and Brussels.
19 Jan 19, 10:48
waveguru: I wonder if there is any chance that Pence will be involved enough to get ousted along with the rest of the criminals, leaving us with our first female president?
19 Jan 19, 11:16
db: Trump loves power and has no problems abusing it.
19 Jan 19, 11:22
larry: Trump's apparently going to offer a temporary fix for the DACA folks, in exchange for 5.7 billion specifically for a Wall. Temporary? That's a no-go. And why is he doing his negotiating on TV? Do it in private, like it should be done. He never learns.
19 Jan 19, 11:22
Operationmockingbird: Today’s headlines; buzzfeed lies again. The last 22 hours of posts should be deleted, all were based on a lie. Keep in mind, buzzfeed isn’t any different than cnn, msnbc, etc
19 Jan 19, 11:28
db: Well, actually, if you read Mueller's statement he does not say the Buzzfeed report was false. He says it was inaccurate. There is a difference. Buzzfeed says it stands by its report. This story isn't over yet. As for deleting the last 22 hours of posts, they have covered a lot of topics, most of which were not related to the Buzzfeed report. So cool your jets, you're getting ahead of yourself.
19 Jan 19, 11:33
db: Cohen has admitted that he lied to Congress at Trump's behest. Buzzfeed is claiming that there is corroboration from sources other than Cohen. And coverage by CNN, MSNBC, etc. has always begun with the caveat, "If true . . ." They were all being very cautious. Let's wait and see.
19 Jan 19, 11:36
db: Remember how BuzzFeed was reviled when it published the story about the Steele dossier? Turns out they had their facts straight. Much of the Steele dossier has been corroborated and none of it has been disproven.
19 Jan 19, 11:37
db: So, mockie, would you like to come back and defend your statements?
19 Jan 19, 11:42
db: Probably not. ;)
19 Jan 19, 12:13
Fishawk: People calling for impeachment on the buzzfeed breaking news were "out over their skis". That being said, I agree with The Atlantic and their latest commentary calling for an impeachment investigation , by the House, to put forward in a comprehensive manner, evidence, so the public can get it's heads around this. This is too important to screw up, it must be thorough, and mindful of the ongoing counterintelligence investigation. A difficult balance.
19 Jan 19, 12:19
Fishawk: The Steele dossier is a good example of the lies and spin surrounding this investigation. The cult believed Trumpster and the right wing babblers when they claimed it a political hack job, assuming it to be untrue. The truth is that while much of it has been corroborated, nothing in it has been disproved. Unwinding the spin surrounding this story will be part of the responsibilities of the House investigation.
19 Jan 19, 12:46
db: Mueller seems to have already done that, but it's looking more and more like Mueller's report will never be officially released. But I'm sure some enterprising soul will sell it to Buzzfeed. Or CNN. It WILL be leaked, and probably by somebody in Trump's White House.
19 Jan 19, 12:48
db: And much of it is already public in those "speaking" indictments. I suspect that the recused portions of the documents will eventually be unrecused once the cases have been adjudicated.
19 Jan 19, 12:51
db: Um . . . redacted, not recused. So many legal terms I never thought I would have to keep straight. ;)
19 Jan 19, 13:37
Fishawk: With the Mueller investigation remaining for all intent and purpose silent on the investigation, the House needs to move forward with a more public and thorough account of facts and evidence than is little more than a bulls**t festival coming out in an uncoordinated fashion from the press. Make no mistake, the press is and will be key IMO in discovery and disclosure of facts and evidence, but the proper facilitator of them to the public should be a House investigation.
19 Jan 19, 13:45
Fishawk: This will be key to opening the eyes of the Trump cult. Confrontation with irrefutable facts and evidence will be crucial in disarming a potentially dangerous and deadly group of people, essentially deprograming the majority of them. Unfortunately with so many of them in over their heads with conspiracies, some of them, probably the most dangerous, will never let go of their delusion. I fear another Timothy McVeigh.
19 Jan 19, 14:27
db: Hmmm . . . no mention of the shutdown .
19 Jan 19, 14:29
db: Did he run any of that past Pelosi and Shumer first?
19 Jan 19, 14:35
Fishawk: More rearranging the deck chairs on the SS Trumptanic.
19 Jan 19, 14:43
larry: Trump's idea of "negotiating" is really odd. It's become painfully clear that Trump has no idea how to negotiate, other than call people names and threaten to sue them. It worked for his corrupt businesses, so i guess he thinks it will work as President. All it does is reduce his standing in the eyes of the public even more. Pathetic.
19 Jan 19, 14:48
larry: He turned down an offer from the Democrats early last year, that gave him $25 billion for his Wall, in exchange for allowing a permanent citizenship for DACA immigrants. He refused; blowing his chances then, as he continues to blow his chances now.
19 Jan 19, 14:57
db: I don't think he has ever had to deal with people who have the power to stand up to him before. Up til now, he has been able to use his lawyers and money to overwhelm mostly small businessmen who didn't have the resources to outlast him in frivolous lawsuits. When he stiffs you out of $20,000, most people just have to swallow it. They don't have $100K and 2 and a half years to fight him in court.
19 Jan 19, 14:58
db: Nancy doesn't suffer fools or bullies.
19 Jan 19, 15:00
Fishawk: The Democrats should just continue to push bills out of the House to reopen government, and allude to a broader border security package debate after the government is reopened. It must be made clear that taking hostages will not be tolerated as a negotiating tactic.
19 Jan 19, 15:05
Fishawk: History is on their side on the imigration issue. Everytime a compromise has been reached through a negotiated process during this administration, it has been blown up by either Trump or right-wing extremists in the Republican party.
19 Jan 19, 15:33
db: Not even McConnell trusts this president anymore. He's just waiting for Trump to tell him what to do, although even then there's no guarantee Trump won't change his mind.
19 Jan 19, 16:06
Fishawk: He has had his arse handed to him in a very public way, and illustrated how completely inept he is at the one thing he has marketed himself at being great at... Deal making. The only thing he is good at is selling crap, he needs to reopen government, press for immigration reform and sell it to his whack-a-doodle right wing extremist base. Modern common sense Border security measures are going to pass Congress when government reopens. Most Americans see through this tempest in a teapot Trump has created as a political distraction from the looming threat of both impeachment proceedings and criminal charges.
19 Jan 19, 16:12
db: Doesn't matter what Pelosi thinks, Ann Coulter is rejecting Trump's latest gambit. "Any DACA deal is amnesty."
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