[older messages]
21 May 19, 11:34
Kilkenny: I believe the issue will be much better investigated by scientists, not a philosopher.
21 May 19, 11:37
db: Are we talking about the same "issue"?
21 May 19, 11:37
larry: Determining trust in a person is the issue.
21 May 19, 11:38
larry: So scientists should be the ones to investigate whether Trump's lies and evasiveness indicate that he's covering up things?
21 May 19, 11:38
db: Trust is probably more of a philosophical than a scientific matter.
21 May 19, 11:39
larry: Exactly. It's a basic human quality, essential to the survival of individuals all the way back to the tribal ages.
21 May 19, 11:40
db: I wonder if Trump would submit to a lie detector test.
21 May 19, 11:41
db: But come on, Kilkenny. I'm interested to hear your opinion on this.
21 May 19, 11:42
Kilkenny: The issue that I had mentioned originally referencing the cultists; is truth becoming more about consensus or the facts?
21 May 19, 11:43
db: That's a rather non-specific question. What cult are you referring to, and what truth are they claiming?
21 May 19, 11:43
Kilkenny: Truth not trust, I apologize for the confusion.
21 May 19, 11:44
db: I'm still confused by cults.
21 May 19, 11:44
Kilkenny: I am think more in the abstract. Nothing specific.
21 May 19, 11:45
Kilkenny: The cultists were mentioned four or five days prior.
21 May 19, 11:45
db: Well, each cult is different, so where to begin. In fact, how do you segue from cults to truth, concensus and facts.
21 May 19, 11:46
db: My memory doesn't go back to the specifics of four or five days ago. Could you be more specific?
21 May 19, 11:47
db: Context would help.
21 May 19, 11:47
Kilkenny: It might be more effective if you would read the genesis of the conversation
21 May 19, 11:48
db: Perhaps. But you are the one who raised the subject.
21 May 19, 11:49
db: And your resistance to answering questions seems strangely familiar. Have we met? ;)
21 May 19, 11:52
db: cathleen, is that you? If so, welcome.
21 May 19, 11:55
waveguru: Sounds like mocking-justice to me...
21 May 19, 11:58
db: That's what I thought, too, but apparently cathleen has been trying to register here. I didn't want to seem unfriendly or scare her off.
21 May 19, 12:00
waveguru: On another subject, I can't wait to hear Mayor Pete say "What? Me worry?"
21 May 19, 12:00
db: That's the hazard of trolls. You get so you assume that every new name is just another iteration of trolldom.
21 May 19, 12:11
Fishawk: The obfuscation about truth, how it's defined, a matter of consensus rather than defined by facts and evidence is the province of grifters and con artists. We are seeing " the most transparent administration ever" pulling every trick it has
21 May 19, 12:12
Fishawk: Trying to keep the facts and evidence out of the public view. That's the truth.
21 May 19, 13:02
waveguru: "and the truth will set you free.” Or in this case, put you in prison?
21 May 19, 13:40
db: Consensus is certainly not the best judge of truth, especially in a population in thrall to a demogogue.
21 May 19, 13:43
db: If that were the case, the sun would still be revolving around the earth and disease would be caused by an imbalance in the four "humours."
21 May 19, 14:48
larry: @db - Kilkenny wasn't cathleen.
21 May 19, 14:54
larry: Cathleen wanted to discuss who people voted for (and why) in the Parks and Recreation election.
21 May 19, 19:01
cathleen: I voted today. Yes, I'm curious how people feel about the local voting. I felt like I didn't know much about the local candidates, but would like to know what people would like to know about their candidate for a "non political" position. For example, do you actually want to know what political party they are with? or is there something else you feel that you need to know about them to vote for or against them?
21 May 19, 19:03
cathleen: thanks to db too. I just got on, after voting. I wanted to find out more before voting but ran out of time today!
21 May 19, 19:13
waveguru: Welcome cathleen. Hope you join us regularly.
21 May 19, 19:28
larry: What do I look for in candidates for local non-political positions? If I recognize the name, that's usually a start. If I know the person, even better. I'm not directly interested in their political party affiliation, but I AM interested in what they are planning to do if they win. If their priorities mostly agree with mine, then they usually have my vote.
21 May 19, 19:29
larry: But if I don't know anything about the candidates for a particular position, I just go by which name sounds the best to me. ;)
21 May 19, 19:30
larry: And I especially like those races where there's only 1 choice to choose from. Those are easy...
21 May 19, 19:36
db: Hi cathleen, good to have new people around.
21 May 19, 19:39
db: I always feel totally uninformed when it comes to local elections, and that makes me feel guilty. And I feel even more guilty if I don't vote.
21 May 19, 19:41
db: If anyone has good words for a candidate on these forums, I'll usually vote for that person .
21 May 19, 19:58
Fishawk: Welcome cathleen, the beauty of living in a smaller community is that usually if I don't know the candidate myself, I do know someone who has at least had some interactions with them. Usually a council member or someone working for the town. But with a lot of new people around getting involved in politics, so It's not always the case.
21 May 19, 20:09
larry: I agree, Fishawk. Often it's friends that I know who know the candiate, or friends that they know who somehow know the candidate or maybe heard some juicy rumors... ;)
21 May 19, 20:10
db: Bloomberg is reporting that U.S. Customs and Border Protection has put up just 1.7 miles of fencing with the $1.57 billion that Congress appropriated last year for President Donald Trump’s wall along the Mexican border, a federal judge was told.
21 May 19, 20:10
larry: The election results so far: [link]
21 May 19, 20:12
HDR: I voted yes for both
21 May 19, 20:12
db: So, both measures are going down.
21 May 19, 20:18
larry: I voted ok for property tax, not ok for prepared food and beverage tax. I guess I got it half right...
21 May 19, 20:23
larry: So, if those results hold, I guess we'll have fewer County funded services in the near to intermediate future. The County has dwindling financial reserves that it can draw on for the next year or two. But I would think that they would start cutting personnel and services sooner than when the reserves totally run out.
21 May 19, 20:29
pablo: I was reading about communities with a lot of second homes and vacation homes and how they have trouble getting people to vote yes for taxes. I think it was Cannon Beach or Seaside. Many of the absentee homeowners would not vote for school levies because they have no skin in the game (kids). So their schools are not doing well. Is something like this happening in Hood River? It's such a rich community. You'd think the coffers would be full, but I know the funding mechanisms are probably outdated.
21 May 19, 20:36
larry: I think that's almost certainly part of the reason for the property tax measure being voted down. Another reason is that people just plain don't like their property tax to raise any higher. even if it's for a worthwhile cause.
21 May 19, 20:37
pablo: Yah, I think at the coast, the cause was moving the elementary school out of the tsunami zone...
21 May 19, 20:38
waveguru: Maybe tax second houses heavily? (vacation rentals)
21 May 19, 20:40
larry: The County here is has been hit hard by 1) the loss of timber harvest revenue over the years, 2) the effect that Measure 5 [link] had on capping taxes, and 3) the escalating cost of PERS. There's probably more than just those 3, but those are the big ticket items.
21 May 19, 20:40
pablo: this is a non-sequitur, but did anybody watch the Buttigieg video I posted? In the townhall, he made a good point that we have to stop watching the Trump show. He admitted that it is difficult to look away from something that is so "grotesque".
21 May 19, 20:41
pablo: I like that idea wave.
21 May 19, 20:42
mumbles: i thought the prepared food tax would pass because it would help garner revenue from our tourism. 2 bucks on a 40 dollar bill seemed palatable to me but i see both sides.
21 May 19, 20:45
pablo: sorry to post and run, but got an early day mañana. Bueñas noches.
21 May 19, 20:46
db: The next step is to start grousing about the condition of the roads and schools, and how long it takes for the cops to respond to noise complaints.
21 May 19, 20:47
waveguru: There is some kind of bed tax in Portland that generates a bunch of revenue. That would be a great way to raise money from tourism and not cost the local population a bundle.
21 May 19, 20:48
mumbles: i am probably in the minority here but instead of raising taxes on property, why not tax a little more on those who make over 250k? Those on a fixed income could get priced out of their homes. There is no easy answer.
21 May 19, 20:50
larry: Regarding capturing some tourism revenue, established local hotels/motels have local tax already added to their bill, which pretty much captures the tourism dollar, probably much more specifically than a restaurant/prepared tax does. But there's increasingly a lot of untaxed tourism revenue moving towards AirBnB and other online gig services. I'm not sure how to fairly deal with that.
21 May 19, 21:34
db: Oh, the sweet, sweet sound of chickens coming home to roost. Merrick Garland is currently the chief judge at the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, where President Trump’s legal battle will head next as the president's attorneys attempt to reverse the earlier court ruling in favor of Congress.
21 May 19, 21:36
db: In no way would I every impugn his integrity, though, by implying that he would let that travesty affect his ruling.
21 May 19, 21:58
mumbles: Only 46% of eligible voters in HR County voted which is both low and disappointing. It is such a gift to be able to vote. Is this normal for HR County?
21 May 19, 22:32
larry: Not sure what the previous turnouts for Special Elections like this has been, but usually they're lower than General Elections.
21 May 19, 23:03
db: For a local special election election, 46% sounds pretty good. I don't think the special measures were a galvanizing issue.
22 May 19, 08:39
db: Oh, lordy, lordy. HUD Sec. Ben Carson appeared in a House Financial Services Committee hearing yesterday and was bewildered that he was being asked about cookies. Oreos, specifically. And a distributor of health, beauty, and home care products. Amway, specifically. And he was otherwise totally unaware of what his department was responsible for, such as overseeing conditions in low-cost housing. Only the best people are called to high level positions in this administration. The writers at SNL will have an easy time with this skit.
22 May 19, 08:42
waveguru: He looked and sounded like he was on some serious drugs. He needs to pee in a bottle.
22 May 19, 09:19
Fishawk: "I don't do coverups" yea, right, like payoffs to pornstar or just bald face lies to the American people like " I have nothing to do with Russians"
22 May 19, 09:22
Fishawk: It's not that the Trumpsters are stupid enough to believe his lies that is the problem, it's that they know he's lying and don't care.
22 May 19, 09:23
db: Yeah, I've reluctantly come to that conclusion, too.
22 May 19, 11:31
db: Wow, Donnie's not going to let Nancy and Chucky play in his sandbox. They showed up this morning for a scheduled infrastructure meeting and he told them to leave, he was cancelling the play date. It is now open warfare. Nancy said afterward that she thought he was insecure. [link]
22 May 19, 11:37
db: Nancy did the unthinkable, she said she though Trump was engaged in a coverup. Trump was visibly angry when he arrived in the Cabinet room about 15 minutes late to meet with Pelosi and Schumer, according to people familiar with what transpired. Trump did not shake hands or sit down, and after accusing Pelosi of saying something “terrible,” he headed out without allowing time for a response.
22 May 19, 11:37
db: “For some reason, maybe it was lack of confidence on his part that he really couldn’t match the greatness of the challenge that we have . . . he just took a pass, and it just makes me wonder why he did,” Pelosi said.
22 May 19, 11:40
db: Trump is visibly unravellng. I think his dementia is entering a critical stage. I'm serious here.
22 May 19, 11:45
db: He threw a full-out tantrum in the Rose Garden, complete with a homemade sign stating “NO Collusion, NO Obstruction,” and railed at Democrats, investigators and the assembled journalists. He also stated in a tweet that Democrats can't possibly walk and chew gum at the same time: “You can’t investigate and legislate simultaneously — it just doesn’t work that way.”
22 May 19, 11:56
pablo: I think Nancy is close to the mark. Narcissists cannot handle criticism and do unravel when it occurs. Beneath the bluster and bravado is a very insecure person. That's how narcissism works. The scary possibility is narcissistic rage which is a phenomenon I would never want to see in somebody with that much power. Narcissistic rage is frequently what is happening in domestic violence or road rage incidents.
22 May 19, 12:06
db: Scary.
22 May 19, 12:09
mumbles: Very scary indeed.
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